Phil Heath | EP139

Continuously work on self development to understand that life is not easy, but let's not make it hard.

Welcome everyone to the driving vision podcast brought to you by the Zigler Auto Group. I'm your host, Sam Dark. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast. Like it if you do, and leave a comment. Hey, driving vision fans.

Today, we have a truly special guest joining us, 7 time mister Olympia champion, Phil Heath, known for his incredible work ethic and unmatched dedication to the sport of bodybuilding. Phil has inspired countless athletes and fitness enthusiasts around the world. In this episode, we'll deep dive into his journey from his early days in the gym to his rise as one of sports legends. We'll explore the mindset that propelled him to success, his training regimen, and what he's up to now as he transitions beyond competition. So whether you're a die hard bodybuilding fan or just looking for some motivation to pursue your goals, you do not wanna miss this conversation.

So let's jump right in. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Driving Vision podcast. Joining us today, 7 time champion, mister Olympia, Phil Heath. And I know you don't like to be introduced that way, but that's how I'm gonna set you up.

All good. You are, Mike, as you talked about today, like someone that's won a Super Bowl 7 times, won, world series 7 times. The level that you have excelled in this area is substantial. And you just spent time with us here at the Ziegler Auto Group in our locker room. So before I go to our big question, what's it like for you?

What's it been like for you being here with team Ziegler over these past couple days?

Oh my gosh. It's been very fulfilling for me to be around a group of people who understand that to win requires a lot of drive, patience, mellow fortitude, but the willingness to communicate effectively with others. Yeah. I think that's huge. It seems like you guys have like like when I was in there in the locker room, I had family up there.

Yeah. No. This is because of the knowledge that you guys have continuously poured into each and every one. There's all your clients. So it was very comfortable for me.

I didn't give like the normal, it has to be this way, very rigid structured speech. It was more free flowing because I was like, I needed to allow myself to be with the family and not be 7 time, mister Olympia, but then I feel he.

Which by the way is pretty cool because we always talk, Mike. We always talk about how we compete together to make each other better. Mhmm. And there's a difference between competing together to get better to achieve a family goal Mhmm. And trying to kill each other.

Right? Correct.

I mean, we we all love that healthy competition. Yeah. But it can get very toxic. Yeah. And it usually is derived of someone not feeling important.

Yeah. And I've mentioned it before, not feeling seen or heard Yeah. Or both. And, having some traumatic moments early on in life that just through you adapting through those troubles Yeah. Made you say, well, this is my time.

Screw you. This is my time. Mhmm. When really when it comes to a team aspect, it's like, no. It's our time, and you'll still be acknowledged.

You could still be a part of a championship team and still be the most valuable player. Yeah. But doesn't it feel to win with a team and show some real effective leadership?

I think so. Wow. You know, those words, and then we'll ask our big question, remind me of what Kirk Gibson who joined us. He's a 2 time world series champion baseball player and was responsible for 2 of the most iconic moments in sports history. He said the same thing Monday night when he spoke to us.

He said his coach said, it doesn't matter if you get that world series if you do it by yourself, and you do it out of resentment for other people, but if you join that team and you do it together and you're vulnerable together and you work together towards that,

it means everything. Right? Absolutely. I mean, you're you're trying to I can only imagine what it would feel like to be on a big team like that and him rounding those bases doing Yeah. You know, I'm doing that.

It's it's one of those things where I'm sure because of his intention, hard work, everything, they all could celebrate with him. Yeah. You would always want to be able to have that sense of, joy that people also on that team were happy for you. Yeah. And I and I believe that he was able to experience that.

And and with all that said, I mean, create a great memory.

Yeah.

I mean, they created a memory. A bond. I mean Yeah. A memory. Yes.

Yeah. Because I I know that those teams, those sports teams, they have, like, those reunions. Yeah. I'm sure they're always happy to see one another. They gotta relive those things.

But like you said earlier, if you were to do it through the negativity, the anger, frustration, that meant, you'd say, yeah. We won, but screw that guy. I would not really care about that person. Really? You don't get man.

Yeah. He's a jerk. He's this. I I personally would not like that. No.

Yeah.

So you're 7 time champion. You hang with the likes of Arnold Schwarzenegger, right, in in the same class as, you have a documentary, which is cool as heck. I watched it, yesterday. It's available on Apple everywhere. The Rock Mhmm.

Was involved with that. Yes. You've done incredible things. You hang with incredible people. You've moved past this bodybuilding phase of your career.

So our our big question is, what's your vision of the world today? And how are you working today in this moment of life to change the world, to continue changing the world? You've already changed it.

Right. I think you take it as you were saying, I take a deep breath because I realize that the world has always been the world, man. I mean, it's always been filled with a lot of depressed people that are just trying to find their way. Yeah. A lot of anger, frustration, people that have those limiting beliefs based on what societal pressures has put onto them.

But then there's also hope. And we find that within maybe a coach, an idol that they may find nowadays on social media. But it could be a pastor, it could be a teammate. You know, usually you would say a family member, but I realize now there's a lot of families that are broken. Yeah.

And it's because they lack secure attachment. And those parents don't necessarily have the words to know how to illustrate their thoughts. So if they can't communicate clearly as to what they're feeling, they're not emotionally capable of helping their kids. So now they walk around. Lights are on, but no one's home.

And the kid now has to learn, like, is dad really upset or is he just thinking about something else? But the dad ain't telling the kids that he just endured some hell at work. Yeah. And the mom doesn't know how to communicate and but yet they have this family. So we live in a world that there's a lot of people that are highly disconnected even though we should be more connected.

But I see my passion and my path now beyond the stage is to remind, especially young men and even older men, you're not alone in your thoughts, man. You don't have to be alone there. You're gonna be alone, but you're not alone as far as, like, the pain that you may have endured, the words that make you that drown out your dream, that suffocate you at night, that keep you up at night because you were told that you were no good, and that decrease your worth instead of empower you to feel worthy. So my job is to remind people that you are worthy for incredible things, but it's what's be should be in here Yeah. And in here, not in here, that you've got to remember that even on my worst day, I know that I still got breath in this lung, so therefore I can get to work and I can work on myself.

And more importantly, self development should be beyond, I would say for me, faith is number 1, but self development has to be there. Mhmm. Because if I don't have self development, that means I think I know everything. Mhmm. And that means I have a a very, fixed mindset, fixed you know, instead of a growth mindset, I could not come here and and expect to learn something from each each of you guys if I just said, I know everything.

He said, no, dude. So for the world, we have to be a little bit more calm. We have to stay accountable. But we also have to show compassion to ourselves first and then work on that self development. That's amazing.

Phil, in relation to

you using the word pain, your winning mindset, what's your view of pain and the obstacles?

I mean, pain can be, you know, the trauma that you had growing up. You know, for me, it could be, you know, for instance, a lot of parents are getting ready for Christmas and stuff. Right? So my birthday is a week before and I remember 2 consecutive years our house got broken into. That was painful to watch.

Yeah. You were wondering like, where's my toys? Why is this like this? Why can't my parents like ensure that we live in a safer place? It was painful to see like your stuff ransacked, but then you realize that some things just aren't fair.

Pain would be having someone who you would consider a friend betray you and maybe in business. And you realize that it wasn't the fact that they were intentionally trying to hurt you. They were just trying to fulfill their dream. And that meant that you weren't going to survive in this business and that their intention was just to be famous, maybe to make some more money and you weren't included in that. That was more their problem.

So I've had to deal with those different types of pain. But to leverage it Yeah. I think requires a lot of vulnerability. And what we shared earlier what I shared earlier was I'm guilty of numbing the pain. Going to the gym, I feel like you could numb the pain.

You can get through that day, that horrible event that may have occurred by going to the gym. And they and they always say like even breakups make great bodybuilders, right? Yeah. But you're still dealing with that pain because the best time you meet an individual, male or female, right, you end up talking about your ex. You didn't really deal with it.

You just masked it and now you look better, but are you really feeling better? No. Deeply rooted issues requires a lot of self seeking of the answer. And I think that it requires solace. I think if you were to maybe disconnect from the phone, still communicate with your coworkers and say, hey, look like this weekend, I know I got a list of things, but let me get ahead of this now because I'm gonna take these 48 hours and really recharge so that I can understand who the hell I am, what I'm trying to do, where my flaws are and just ride it out.

Murder board it out if you got to, because we shouldn't live throughout pain. We shouldn't live with it. We gotta get rid of it so then we can experience some happy moments, man. Otherwise, you end up looking like the person that makes everything look daunting. Yeah.

Everything's daunting. We've been around those guys. Right? Like, every how's it going? Ah, man.

You know? Like, it's like Everything's massive. I care. Everything is like a big deal. It's like, bro, like, you have area of your loves.

What are you talking about? Like Yeah. What are you talking about? You drive you got a nice car. You got a You forgot, well, I still got problems, mate.

It's like, no. You got solutions to those problems. You just refuse to acknowledge it because you want someone to feel sorry for you. What you need to do is be in more gratitude and remember your lineage of how you got here. You adapted through all this trouble.

Kick some more butt, man. Yeah. Maybe it's just your call to greatness that you're just refusing to answer. So I you know, it's a lot of that goes into that.

So you got your your first title is 2011. Yes. You went through a journey where you learned this firsthand. Right? Like, you talked about shooting baskets as a kid Yep.

So that others could see. You talked about your transition through high school sports and just lighting up over playing basketball. Knowing and feeling and sensing despite your ability to dunk maybe a little too short. Going into d one sports in Colorado and having that that excruciating moment of realizing you're not gonna make that, but wanting to be great. How did you come to this worldview where it's what you're talking about now, which is so counter to not only social media, but just the sensibility of any pro athlete.

Right? I mean, we're we're dealing with a lot of mental health right now because it's not being addressed head on.

Yeah. COVID made it worse. I truly believe that. Stopped talking to each other.

Yeah. We really stopped talking to each other. We show lack of empathy to both sides. Yeah. Because we we just lack compassion, and that's unfortunate.

And people are still, like, not speaking to family members or friends because of it. Mhmm. A lot of people can't even raise their hand and say I was wrong either. Yeah. And I think that that's, like, a sense of feeling like a a mature functional adult is to be like, you know what?

My intention was not to hurt your feelings, but I know I did. Yeah. And that sucks to see that we haven't connected over the last 3 years because of what I did to you. Man. I'm sorry.

Man, if I could do it all over again, I would never have done that. But I hope that you can see that this is coming from sincere and I'm not expecting you to accept it. Yeah. But I hope that you can believe that I want the best for you. Yeah.

But those are words that like I had to learn to and it's just, like I said, just through, I mean, hell, I had to hire a therapist. Yeah. To understand, like, I don't have the tools to be able to communicate effectively. I mean, we have sales coaches to learn how to go from marketing to creative marketing, right? You need those people that are experts that have done the work.

And it's something like a muscle that has to be used all the time for it to stick. Yeah. The world is the world is already wicked. I mean, why be wicked yourself? Yeah.

I know a lot of people feel like, well, I need to I need to be I need to be hyper vigilant to deal with the world. Now I will say, if you have that piece of you in you, you don't have to kill that person. Mhmm. Keep that warrior still in you. Defcon, what happens?

Yeah. Yeah. But you should not walk through life hypervigilant. Always at battle. Because you're and I did that, walking around with a scowl on your face every day to let people know that I mean business.

Dude, like, your 7 time mission Olympi, I think everybody with a brain would know that you mean business when you go to the gym, when you had to interact with your food and everything else. And same with sales and whatnot. Like, if you're top of your sales, like, you don't have to, like that's what we're doing. Yeah. We're just, I don't know, we're experiencing something, I would say, very different because of the social media aspect.

The false, bravado, I think Yeah. Is very big because if we if I puff my chest out big enough, I can get more followers than I can sell stuff to. Yeah. We sell it through fear and manipulation. But for me, it's more like I would wanna sell everyone on themselves.

I'm selling you, you're you. You need to know you're 1 of 1, number 1. That means you're a non duplicatable asset. That should mean something to you because if anything else in this world, there's a non duplicatable asset that has a high value. Right?

Yeah. So all of that, that's awesome. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah. We're talking about cars and stuff.

We're talking about 101. We know that that's worth something. Oh, yeah. That's you. Yeah.

But you're going ahead and just scratching it all up and this and that and not even believing that you're worse. Yeah. That's crazy to me. So But the society, they they they make you feel because of the comparison. I gotta compare myself to you.

Yeah. You too. Man, just compare yourself to your performance from yesterday. Ask yourself what you learned. If you didn't learn anything, ask yourself why.

Well, it's because I was screwing around. Okay. Well, does that do those habits actually come to a conclusion that you're gonna have a triumphant moment? No. Then,

Yeah.

If your lights were getting turned off, meaning your life was going to be over, what would you want the story to read? Yeah. And I think it's, we all have said this probably, but then we forget. And I think the people that keep that in their mind and have those check ins, they're the ones that hold themselves highly accountable. And they experience those, those great moments.

In fact, you talk about when you think about that highly accountable, one of the quotes that I love, especially coming from a business perspective is and you said this early on, you know, you wanted to be great at basketball. Ultimately, you said I will be great. I will be pro

at something. Yeah. And you

said that. You put that out there. But you also said if you wanna be the best, if you wanna be great at something, you've gotta own it all. Right? Everything.

What what is that mindset like, Owning it all.

It's like having that growth mindset of knowing that I I don't have it all figured out. Yeah. I think I do based on maybe things that I've seen or read about, but I personally don't have it all figured out because I haven't actually done it yet. Yeah. Only

get a hold isn't all about ego then.

You have to conquer it. Yeah. You have to conquer the shame, the the guilt, the regret that that goes into goal setting, man. Like some people shame themselves into doing something. You know, some people have negative self talk to get themselves to move.

I understand that they may that may happen. But if you keep that going for a long period of time and you numb everything, so you numb the bad and the good. You don't get to experience a great career. You're the one that is pissed off at the end of your career. Wow.

And we've known people like that. We've seen people like that. They're a former CEO. Oh, I've had it 3 exits, this and that and the other. He still wants to kill himself.

Yeah. Because he doesn't feel fulfilled. Well, you don't feel fulfilled because you didn't enjoy it. Like, you you say you had passion, but you don't smile. Yeah.

So why would I, as a 7 time Michelinpio, be able to make a younger Phil Heath wanna compete if I'm like, yeah. You know, this sucks, but I did it anyway. It's like, no. Did I enjoy every every step on that cardio? No.

Did I enjoy, you know, the heaviest leg days? No, initially. Then I learned to love it. I learned to know that, wow, I was chosen to do something very unique. I'll be damned if I don't give you this everything I have.

Because at some point in time, this bodybuilding thing is gonna end. But I don't deserve, oof man, I don't deserve the next chapter if I don't show gratitude for this current season. Wow. Yeah. Powerful.

Like I don't, like the greatest version, right? We're talking about at the end of the life, Man Upstairs shows you who you could be. Yeah. The reason why you didn't hit that mark is because you didn't give yourself permission to do it in the 1st place. And you thought that, like, when I said I wanted to win 10 mister Olympias, the reason why I said that is because it wouldn't it's never been done.

Yeah. I got 7. Yeah. And case in point, there was a bodybuilder. I won't mention his name, but I remember him winning 1.

And he said, man, I would be I'm so glad I just won this one. Yeah. If you know, he's just like probably just speaking through his emotions and maybe there's some real to this. He's like, man, if I don't ever win again, at least I got this one. Well, guess what?

I heard that, and I said, all you will win is 1.

Yeah.

Because I'm gonna make sure of it. Yeah. So you gotta mind your words. Yeah. Yeah.

The universe hears it.

So when you talk about that gratitude, that last title that the movie is so great about Mhmm. I didn't know the story how it ended until I saw the show. And I thought you were gonna get that 8th title. I'm like, this is just one of those great American stories of victory at the very end. Mhmm.

But I actually felt like at the end, you won because you did that last title for you. That was sort of your finding joy in it. And Yeah. It was a different mindset than the than the first 7.

It it really was. And, you know, training for the 7th, you realize what's on the line. And to me, it was being tied with Arnold Schwarzenegger. I mean, that's like, wow. Right?

Yeah. Term injury. Exactly. So when you're thinking, okay. No matter what, I'm tied with him.

Now you go for 8. You don't get in 2018. You now have your second hernia surgery. You sit out all of 2019. You decide through a global freaking pandemic that you're just gonna make a comeback.

And I thought the average person would have retired after they won their 7th knowing that after my 7th, I had to go to surgery that following week. Yeah. The average person probably would have said, man, just retire. You know, quit while you're ahead. Yeah.

And I had some really good friends in very high places that said, oh, yeah. You should just retire and go do movies and this and that. Yeah. But I know you feel that you're gonna wanna go for 8. And I go, yes.

Because I don't wanna live with the regret of not trying.

Yeah. You gotta know where it ends.

I gotta know where it ends. Yeah. And through, you know, the pandemic, I was like, well, this definitely wasn't advantageous for me to make a comeback. But what if You were at a gym and it was dark. Pitch black, man.

IPhone like. Shout out to the freaking stupid sheriffs over in Jefferson County in Colorado for making it so where I couldn't go train. Right? But that was something that I thought was so relatable to to everyone, not just in Colorado, but around the world. We all suffered.

Through that. We all went through it. It was awful. And I didn't want yeah. It was very awful.

To have to train with an iPhone light at, you know, 11 o'clock at night and park your car 2 blocks down so they didn't realize it was you. Yeah. But then I thought that this is what professionals do. Yeah. This is what someone with the focus of being the best in the world would do.

And when when you say that you're a beacon of hope, you can I I would ask I would have to ask myself this, Like, do you really think you're a champion? A champion would be resilient through this stuff. And in fact, I smiled. I was like because people were like, oh, he's gonna make a comeback. He hasn't been on stage in 26, 27 months.

You know, things change and this, that. I was like, I'm still Phil Heath. Yeah. I'm still me and no matter what happens, I'm still me. You may not see where my victory is in my head and of course, I'm not.

In my opinion, I'm probably the most competitive guy that has graced that stage because I just wanted it so bad. But if you say you're the most competitive person, why does it always have to be when you feel good? Michael Jordan did the flu game. He could have quit. You know?

Brett Favre could've quit when his dad died and still threw those touchdowns. Yeah. You know, like, people go through stuff. So you can't call yourself a real champion if you're not willing to endure some hardship and still show up and then show out. That is strong.

You said there's this transition here, talent plus hard work equals it's over.

And you said with a competitive spirit, the talent and the hard work equal that success, owning it all. Gratitude and faith Yes. Are the things that make the difference. Being grateful for it, and gratitude as you describe it, that's part of what makes you appreciate the moment. And I know we touched a little bit about that, but the gratitude and faith part.

I think a lot of people, including myself, because of you just wanting to win, you're just focusing on just to be first. Yeah. And then, you know, I talk about a hollow victory because you're already thinking about the next day. It's like the movie, there's a movie called Pacific Rim. Oh, yeah.

So you know with the kaijus and all this stuff and they try to kill these aliens and stuff. Well, what happens every time they get a call, they got to kill them. They kill them and then they say reset the clock. Yeah. So that means It's always pending.

Don't rest on your last victory because you got another battle ahead. That is very daunting.

Yeah. And exhausting.

And very exhausting. But I still believe that you should have a moment to celebrate. Mhmm. I don't think I celebrated maybe enough of, let's say, quality celebration. It doesn't have to be a week long of, like Yeah.

Pulling maybe a JR Smith where you're still holding the NBA title 2 weeks later with your shirt off, you know, running around town. No. I'm saying in the moment, enjoy that moment. Yeah. Like, really enjoy.

It would be like, yeah. If you won the NBA championship, you won the Stanley Cup, like, enjoy it to the fullest. And then maybe 3 days later, you're like, well, time for off season. Gotta get ready, but I enjoyed it. I didn't do that for a lot of those wins.

And because I was programmed to think next, next, next, next, next. And I and it was almost embedded into my brain that that's how you have to be. Well, I can tell you, I probably could have enjoyed a little bit more because I was the guy that would win the Olympia and 2 weeks later go, let's say, on a on a family vacation, I take my wife out to something. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna spend this money right and I'm gonna take my wife out and do this stuff.

Let me tell you, I remember taking her to this amazing experience and I had to apologize because for 8 straight days, I was just vegged out. This is me, Just numb.

Yeah.

And it's just like, oh, crap. First of all, I just wasted a 100 you know, a lot of money.

A lot of money.

A lot of money.

He about set the dollar amount, but that's okay. Yeah. Yeah.

It was a

lot of money.

Lot of money. And now I gotta redo it. Yeah. Because I gotta give her an experience Yeah. Because she endured that stuff with me.

Yeah. And I gotta let her know that she's valid. She's validated. She's she's important. And, you know, you learn lessons in life, with a price.

Some are inexpensive. That one's a very expensive lesson in my opinion. Yeah. You know, so I learned right away. I was like, gratitude, you gotta have it.

You gotta be able to say, all right, the show is over. Whether you won or you lost, thank God you have enough money to go take travel the world and go experience something. But really experience it.

Really Live in the moment.

Live in the moment. Really enjoy that cocktail or enjoy that walk, enjoy that cruise. Yeah. Enjoy putting on the clothes that you normally wouldn't wear because you're now in a different climate. Like, enjoy it all because life can change, and we've all seen it happen.

So Dude, what is it about human nature? I love what you're saying here. Brene Brown talks about this as about foreboding joy. Like, you think about your kids and you're grateful for your kids and then

you think, well, my gosh. They could go out on the car and get in a car accident. Right? We take that away from ourselves in the moment because there's something so vulnerable about celebrating. Right?

If I celebrate my 6th win, it's gonna take away the possibility of the 7th. Yeah. What is it about that? Why do we do that?

We we make it seem like we lose our edge. Right? Like, oh, don't celebrate too much. It's like, okay. So then you don't, and you'll be the person still talking about high school to your friends 30 years later.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

We all know those people. We know those guys. Right? Yeah. I don't have to talk about certain things because I can say, like, when hell, when we won state in high school, the one thing I didn't get to experience was the actual joy of parting with my teammates in the locker room because I had to get 6 stitches right here because I got elbowed during the Q4.

So they had to stitch me up as coaches doing the speech and do I I didn't experience that, but I still remember what it felt like to get the ring. And I remember having those moments with my with my team, who I still chat with on the phone to this day on a group chat. And, you know, I don't have to relive, like, you know, like, uncle Rico type of talk. You know? You know how to do it like that.

I can say been there, done that. Yeah. What's new, guys? Like Yeah. What other wins can we stack?

It doesn't mean that it didn't matter. It's just I I feel like, again, we always circle around, did we really enjoy in the moment? And I don't have children, but what I will say is that god will it, I have a child or kids. I want them to know that I was present. Yeah.

And I want them to know what it felt like, the first ice cream cone That's cool. The first ride on a bicycle, the first the first the first the first. You were there for that. And I was there, and I wanted them to win, like, okay. You you fell on the bike.

You good? Yeah. Tell me what's going on. You oh, you'd be alright. I think I'm more primed for that now because of the work that I've had to do that I chose to do with my wife.

Yeah. And, you know, that's how we will contribute to society, in my opinion, is to try to become more, secure adults, through therapy and to continuously work on self development to understand that life is not easy, but let's not make it hard.

How'd you find a good therapist?

Yeah. Oh, man. That was grace of God on that one, man. Because my wife, like, she, you know, she had a couple girlfriends. 1 in particular was seeing someone, like, more like performance coaching and stuff.

And her and her husband were, just they just got engaged and, you know, and they were trying to figure out, like, okay, they're both athletes. And when you have 2 high performing people, they usually don't work. No. We see it like in Hollywood and this and trash each other. Yeah like so you got to have some tools.

Yeah. And really taking it like because you know I've told some of my friends oh yeah my wife and I are counselors like well what did you do? I'm like dude it isn't like that. Yeah. It's like, I don't It's not a problem to fix.

It's development. It's preventative. Yeah. It's knowing that, like, if I have tools, then I know how to communicate better. What will my life be like if I can communicate really good?

Yeah. Not become some mind reader because I can't do that. But what if I could communicate better with my wife? That means I know how to communicate my feelings to myself, to my wife, to coworkers, to fans here. That's really neat.

Now I'm at peace with myself.

What I love about that is at a moment in your life, you said I will be a pro at something. That pro became bodybuilding. That was basketball for a period of time, and now it's becoming in this next phase, connecting

Mhmm.

And communicating with other people, giving back to younger kids Yes. And helping light the world up, not only through your wife who in the show was your girlfriend. Right? Yep. But elsewhere.

Thinking about kids, a question from our audience when when we said we were gonna interview you. Some kids look at you and they're like, my gosh. He's ripped.

Right, Matt.

Do you recommend kids try to look like you? Or if you're a teenager in high school or in college, like, what's that path look like?

You know, I've been asked the question of, like, would I have my kids or, like, you know and I'd say no because of who their father is. Right? Okay. I don't want them to have that type of pressure.

Yeah. Because they have the genes, presumably. Yeah. Presumably, but

we don't know that. Right? So even if they did, like, I think it would be even greater as if they blaze their own trail. Yeah. But if they wanted to follow in my footsteps, that's what they're gonna do.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I was able to do it through a different adaptation of, you know, having parents that provide it, but all those different whys in the road are unique. Yeah. So you're trying to do the same output as me, but you're not you don't wanna go through. I'm You got your own path. That would mean like you would have to experience almost like the same traumatic events to get you there too.

I don't think that's smart. What I think is great is if you said, yeah you know that or like even kids nowadays they say, hey I want to be mister Olympia. I say okay We gotta go through the 7 layers of why. Mhmm. I need to understand why does this matter to you so much because here it is.

There's been 18 champions in 60 years. Yeah. So that's less than the teams that have won the Super Bowl. Right? I would yeah.

There's more than 18 teams that won the Super Bowl. Yeah. So this is where it becomes extremely unique. So then you have to understand the odds are not in your favor. So then and nowadays, we probably have to say this to all these kids.

If there was no YouTube money, if there was no monetization on social media Yeah. Why would why would you why would you continue to do the same things you do Yeah. And why? And there has to

be a little part of it. You said it's talent and hard work. Talent is a little bit of it. Jeans are

a little bit of it. Right? Get to the point. Talent is

for sure. But you can also build to get there. So, Mike, before we get in the last question, we appreciate you being here, Mike. You get the last question. It's interesting in professional sports, you wear a jersey

Mhmm. And at

some point, you take that jersey off. Yes. In your professional sport, it's your body.

Yeah.

You talked about it. It's incredibly vulnerable. You were naked in front of people, basically. You had I've never worn a

Yeah. You know, I say afraid. I have

never done that. And it's fascinating to me. You're in incredible shape. I like I won't even start. Right?

But in this post phase, like, how do you transition? You talked a little bit about your workouts today. Like, you're gonna turn 80. Yes. Right?

What does that look like for a bodybuilder who can't take off that jersey?

Like Yeah.

That history will follow you. Right?

I I think instead of saying I gotta take this off, just say it always will be embedded into my system. Like, it was a chapter. It was a season. Yeah. I enjoyed it, and I'm willing to experience maybe some unknowns, which is life after and create a new goal.

You should create a new goal for me, and this is reset. It's been 4 years since I competed. What's wild is that I could still do it. Right? Yeah.

I still have You could turn them on at any moment.

I could turn it on in another year and say I'm doing the Olympia again. But then it's like, but why would I do that? Yeah. And then what and if I do, that probably means that I'm oh, man. It's because I'm afraid of actually experiencing the next chapter.

You're avoiding the next chapter.

A lot of people stay in that same relationship. They stay in that same dead end job because they're afraid. And you got to just say, you know what, enough is enough. And I want to have the spice of life, which is variety of some sort. So you got to be willing to try something new to experience something better.

And for me right now, I get to instead of compete at the Olympia, I get to commentate at the Olympia. I get to edify those athletes by while still providing constructive criticism. And those athletes know that it's coming from a 7 time champion who has no horse in this race that just wants to pour into them. And then I also this year, I'll just say this because I'm excited about it, is that I get to be inducted into the International Sports Hall of Fame this week. Congratulations.

Yeah. So it's it's a huge honor. I'm very thankful for it. You know, people like Marcus Allen has been a part of it. And I was saying Pierre from UFC.

My graduating class will be, Brian Shaw, world's strongest man, Misha Tate, UFC champion, JJ Perry, who was a great martial artist, did a lot of stunt choreography, Jim Plunkett, and a few others. But I didn't get there by just being a basketball player. Right?

Yeah.

I got there by saying, you know, basketball didn't work out, stepped into bodybuilding, and then trying to expand on that doing the public speaking that I currently do. Yeah. But it requires a lot of self awareness, a lot of self development, and I really freaking love it. Yeah. Because I know that there's another person out there that is so freaking stuck that has been beat down by other people and continues to listen to that stupid noise from others and in their own head.

But if I can help them tune their frequency, they get to experience something even better. And that's living a more abundant life. And I and I say, like, I'm still learning too. And I'm just passionate about it, man. I just think it's it's, I feel like there needs to be more men that want to help people than to just stay hurt in their own feelings and just stay rigid and and do it out of, oh, well, I want to be somebody.

No, guys, you're already somebody. That's what can you do for somebody else. If you can focus on doing something for yourself and helping somebody else, don't worry about money. That's going to happen. That's just a law of attraction in my opinion.

You don't have to shame people, guilt people, manipulate people to pay you. If you provide value and you show up with value, they're gonna be like, I'm buying that car from that person because they're trying to tell me something that I just didn't know and they're passionate about it. Yep. So that's that's really how I approach this phase currently in my life.

I'll tell you. Amazing to to hear and to understand your journey. And in particular, to hear how right now you are suppressing the fear for that next stage, you're recognizing our tendency as human beings to numb, to resist going into that next phase. It's an inspiration. My last question Yeah.

Absolutely.

You know, Phil Heath, this is very fascinating, but I've noticed a pattern over the years with our guest speakers that we brought in. All very, very wildly successful people, all walks of life. And that's a, mindset of gratitude. Yeah. And I'm gonna ask you to take us in closing to a really tough time in your life professionally.

And you've won 7 times, mister Olympia. You're on stage going for 8. Yeah. And you had to shift your mindset because you have all eyes on you. Mhmm.

You're a mentor. Yep. I mean, everybody's looking at you. Talk to us about that mindset shift there. Talk to us about how maybe grace, humility, and then gratitude played a role at that hard time.

We're talking about

2018? Oh. So if I'm standing on that stage, and at that point in time, I kinda realized the writing's on the wall that they're that you're gonna lose. But you need to hear it and you don't wanna hear it's like you're getting you're facing a firing squad.

Yeah.

And you're like, just kind of get it over with your tense. Yeah. And when they announced his name, I was just like, damn it. I I had to take it all in. Initially, you think that people are laughing at you and this and that.

Now I realize that that ain't it. They're just cheering for the new person. They're happy for that new person. They you also are a part of history. The champ has been dethroned.

That normally does not happen. Yeah. But take it all in. Yeah. What did you hear?

And it was loud. I was like, damn. Like, man, y'all cheered for me like that before, but man, like and then I had to say, you know what? Just be still, dude. Just how do you feel?

Like and it was like milliseconds. Right? You're you're going through this. And I was like, just breathe, dude. It's his time.

You're gonna have to congratulate him. He did his job. You did your job. They chose him. And I think that's the hardest part with bodybuilding is that you can still do your job and you not get the nod.

And you're in unlike any other sport, that's why I think bodybuilding is probably the hardest that is unrecognized as that because you have to deal with the emotional intelligence. You're naked pretty much and you're being judged on how you actually look with no filter on Instagram. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

So no one wants to be judged like that. So you're automatically gonna feel that you're not good enough. You you you're crap. You're horrible. And then you have to learn to breathe and say, you know what?

It was his turn and maybe tomorrow wouldn't be his turn, but for right now it's his turn. So you hug him and said it looked great.

Yeah.

And, I got on that one knee that I would get on and I would pray to God saying, thank you when I won and I said, and I'll be damned if I don't get on one knee and point up and say, thank you for getting me through this because I did my best with what I had. Although I didn't like that moment, I wanted to win 8. I had to be a man and a professional and say, hey, are you really a fake Christian at this moment? Nah, dude. Like, you're gonna acknowledge that you're still the greatest, if not the greatest of all time with 7 Mr.

Olympias, and you're just a human being that lost. Mhmm.

Yeah. Absolutely. And the reason I think it's appropriate to close with that is it shows the incredible art that you have and the incredible human being that you are. Phil Heath, thank you so much. Thank you.

We appreciate you. Thanks for being on the podcast.

Appreciate you, man. Thank you. A A big thanks to Phil Heath and Mike Van Rhijn for contributing to this week's episode. Until next week, how are you driving vision today?